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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 2 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1428<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: stopping the world<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Hello and TNE question<BR>
re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
The answer to the great 'Where does Jump Fuel go?' debate ;-)<BR>
Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
RE: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
Re: GS3/3 Solar Sails<BR>
re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: power generation technologies<BR>
Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:54:06 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: stopping the world<BR>
<BR>
Jason Kemp wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the <BR>
one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
I take it that there's some effect to this world-stopper that stops the<BR>
mass of the world itself from rotating, and not the hydrosphere, <BR>
atmosphere or anything upon it. Considering how heterogenous much<BR>
of the planet is, why does the weapon not affect the people, the water,<BR>
and the air the same way it affects the planet? <BR>
<BR>
It would be bad to go from normally rotating to tidally locked all at once,<BR>
even without mile-high ocean waves and such.<BR>
<BR>
SPI's _Freedom In The Galaxy_ had an orbital superweapon the<BR>
bad-guy Empire could use, called the Planetary Stabilizer. It could<BR>
instantly stop just the core (and maybe the mantle) of a planet from<BR>
rotating, throwing the crust of the planet into space as the thin crust<BR>
absorbed all that rotational velocity at once. Everything on the planet<BR>
dies, and everything in orbit (including the Planetary Stabilizer) gets<BR>
destroyed as well. As a bonus, the Imperial terraforming engineers<BR>
have a clean slate to work from, and it's probably in a habitable zone<BR>
of the star system to boot...once the orbit clears up a bit.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:02:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin MIchael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
> As for <BR>
> me, I myself have read the Bible, "to see what all the shouting<BR>
> was about". Guess what, I'm still an athiest.<BR>
> <BR>
> :)<BR>
<BR>
Missed it, eh? :-p<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:09:01 EST<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Hello and TNE question<BR>
<BR>
Hi all, I'm back after a few months absence. I was previosuly subscribed under mmckeown@hotmail. I just voted on Mark Millers site for favorite traveller system..I found I was in the distinct MINORITY :) <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I have a TNE question...was there a "ship" book for the system? Like supp. 7 or 9 for CT?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks..happy holidays to all!<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:12:15 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
That's not what Streetwise is, though. From the Traveller book:<BR>
<snip pertinent quote><BR>
There's a referee example as well, but in the sake of brevity I'm leaving it<BR>
out. I do have certain problems with the description of the skill as<BR>
presented, it doesn't look like it deals solely with the *criminal*<BR>
underground, but subcultures in general.<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Agreed, but the most common *uses* of the skill I've seen or heard<BR>
of deals with those who are, in some way, criminal. Whether they are<BR>
criminal because they are the bad guys, or because they've been<BR>
criminalized by the rest of society is another matter. Your quote <BR>
highlights the utility of the skill in knowing how to obtain contraband<BR>
goods or make shady deals as well.<BR>
<BR>
Streetwise might be useful in making a deal with the stevedore gangs<BR>
in a low-class starport, while Admin skill would be used to deal with<BR>
a high-class starport executive. Bribery skill could be useful in either<BR>
case, as long as you have something to bribe with and your target<BR>
can be bribed.<BR>
<BR>
(OT: I recall in TSR's "Gangbusters" prohibition-era rpg, there was a<BR>
chance (1 in 100? 1 in 36?) that any NPC would be totally honest,<BR>
and would not lie, accept a bribe or give in to criminal intimidation under<BR>
any circumstances. This could be a very serious problem for gangster<BR>
PC's, since getting such a person out of the way might require murder <BR>
- - and a standard of the fiction being played was that while racketeers and <BR>
smugglers might evade the forces of justice, these same forces would <BR>
pursue a murderer with tireless dedication.)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:16:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin MIchael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
<BR>
Heh-heh.  Yep, named "Vampire Fleets". :-p<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Qstor@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
> I have a TNE question...was there a "ship" book for the system? Like supp.<BR>
7 or 9 for CT?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:18:22 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: The answer to the great 'Where does Jump Fuel go?' debate ;-)<BR>
<BR>
The current Freefall:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/default.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:26:35 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
From: Jeff Zeigler <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
> >  What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
> >  on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the <BR>
> >  one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
> >  planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
> <BR>
> One effect you've missed. . .You'd have to dissipate or oppose all of<BR>
> the planet's rotational energy, and unless you've somehow repealed<BR>
> the laws of thermodynamics a fair amount of that energy is going to<BR>
> end up as heat.  IIRC that would be enough to melt a large portion of<BR>
> the planet's rock.  The oceans wouldn't just slosh, they'd flash-boil.<BR>
<BR>
Good point.  I had wondered about how much heat might be produced in<BR>
such an instant, but was caught up in the imagined special effects of<BR>
the empire state building shearing off and flying eastward at some<BR>
incredible speed, followed by huge super-tsunami waves destroying<BR>
both seaboards, that kind of thing.  You know, the basic cinematic<BR>
end of the world level of destruction.<BR>
<BR>
> Not quite.  Tidally locked worlds still rotate, they just do it in step<BR>
> with their orbital motion.  Of course if you want to specify that the<BR>
> world has been reduced to a tide-locked state from a state of<BR>
> rotating every 24 hours or so, the effects would be almost the<BR>
> same.<BR>
<BR>
Point conceded.  In the event of a true cessation of rotation, does <BR>
that mean, then the the day now equals the sidereal year?  Still has <BR>
nasty effects on the ecology and weather patterns, but after the <BR>
melting of most of the planet's surface, what does it matter, right?<BR>
<BR>
> I've just finished applying a rough _First In_ procedure to all 400 worlds<BR>
> of the Solomani Rim.  An awful lot of those worlds are tide-locked, all<BR>
> right, but that's because they're down in canon as maintaining Earthlike<BR>
> conditions despite being in orbit around dim red dwarfs.<BR>
<BR>
I'd love to see this, but I can assume it's for the GT: Solomani Rim <BR>
book you're working on, so I guess I'll just have to wait until it <BR>
comes out.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Looking forward to it with anticipation.<BR>
<BR>
> You don't need Ancient weapons to tide-lock a world under those<BR>
> conditions. Sitting too close to a star will do it in much less<BR>
> than a billion years.<BR>
<BR>
I know.  I was just reaching pretty hard for an ObTrav, actually, so <BR>
that the post would somehow be Traveller-related.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:29:27 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans writes:<BR>
>From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
>>Just my Cr 0.02: There are differences in power generating<BR>
>>plants around Terra, but most of these are either minor<BR>
>>variations on the same technology, or based on resources<BR>
>>that vary considerably in availability.<BR>
>Well, yes and no. The same idea may be at work with nuclear<BR>
>plants and coal plants, the two are very different animals.<BR>
<BR>
	This would be an example of approaches based on differences<BR>
	in available resources.  Also, while the source of heat may<BR>
	be quite different, the turbines and electrical generation<BR>
	will be quite similar.<BR>
<BR>
>>details of some foreign cars, but almost all of them use<BR>
>>metal frames, rubber tires, and internal combustion<BR>
>>engines.  That despite the wide range in environments in<BR>
>>which these vehicles must operate.<BR>
>I know you said "almost all", but if you head up north where<BR>
>there's a good deal of snow and you'll find lots of vehicles<BR>
>which use a combination of skies and treads, not rubber tires.<BR>
>These vehicles fill the same role as cars, but they're not cars.<BR>
<BR>
	Yup, but space is mostly the same wherever you go.<BR>
<BR>
>To go a step further than that even, Buckminster Fuller designed<BR>
>the Dymaxion (sp?), a three-wheeled car that was quantifiably<BR>
>better than most cars of the time, but an unfortunate accident<BR>
>caused funding to dry up. While the Dymaxion was not radical in<BR>
>the sense that the difference between, say, using solar power on<BR>
>a starship and using fusion power would be, it's still a design<BR>
>which is different enough to be notable.<BR>
<BR>
	I'm right with you here.  I try to work in minor differences<BR>
	in tech, novel approaches to using the same tech, etc.  It's<BR>
	just that if your neighbour has starships that are demonstrably<BR>
	superior in every way, I expect that eventually you will adopt<BR>
	that technology.  Just how much of a time lag there is may be<BR>
	subject to debate.<BR>
<BR>
>To stick with automobiles as an example, even with very similar<BR>
>technology, cars themselves can come in a variety of different<BR>
>shapes and sizes. Sometimes, as with the popularity of compact<BR>
>and sub-compact cars, the change is a result of *function*, while<BR>
>at other times the change is purely a result of aesthetics. Take<BR>
>a look at the rise in popularity of the SUV among America's<BR>
>"soccer moms".<BR>
<BR>
	I agree.  This should be the most fertile ground for <BR>
	generating differences in starship designs.  Of course, even<BR>
	Imperial designs should vary considerably (Presumably 4 dtons<BR>
	is some sort of minimum for staterooms, but larger ones could<BR>
	be installed. If one wished to complicate the rules further,<BR>
	one could introduce drives that are cheeper but have lower<BR>
	performance, or some saving in tonnage for skipping grav=plates<BR>
	in the hallways).<BR>
<BR>
>To further complicate issues, you've got things like motorcycles<BR>
>on the roads as well, which look and feel very different from<BR>
>automobiles. If everybody in America started to drive motorcycles,<BR>
>for whatever reason, the country would look and feel quite different.<BR>
>So, even using the same core technology, you can have any number of<BR>
>permutations which, in most cases, are functionally different in a<BR>
>quantifiable way.<BR>
<BR>
	I am in complete agreement.<BR>
<BR>
>These are above and beyond *mere* differences in tech levels.<BR>
<BR>
	Yup, a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.<BR>
<BR>
>One thing that's interesting, which nobody has mentioned yet,<BR>
>which is not surprising given the rational and optimization-happy<BR>
>nature of this list, is that something which may be functionally<BR>
>and quantifiably better may be, for whatever reason, unpopular, or<BR>
>the idea might not catch on. Look at the Betamax / VHS brawl, as<BR>
>an example,<BR>
<BR>
	Consumer goods are driven by a number of things, not least<BR>
	of which is standardization.  There is no doubt that this<BR>
	consideration would influence the use of technologies, but<BR>
	there are limits.  Can you imagine an airline insisting on<BR>
	using propeller-driven aircraft for transatlantic flights?<BR>
	At best, a very small market might be found for 'nostalgia'<BR>
	flights, but jets are the way to go for long-distance<BR>
	travel.  The fact that prop planes are still practical for<BR>
	short hauls does not mitigate this.<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Fax machines owe their popularity in the 80s and 90s not to their<BR>
>being "better" than other forms of technology,<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	I don't follow this.  To what other forms of technology are<BR>
	you refering?<BR>
<BR>
>So, even on a single planet it's quite possible to have many<BR>
>different approaches to a problem. People's priorities can also<BR>
>be very different. While many on this list may lean toward<BR>
>optimization, most people *don't*. Tradition and industrial<BR>
>inertia are very powerful forces, even for those of us who aren't<BR>
>Vilani.<BR>
<BR>
	Agreed, but I still don't see radically different technologies<BR>
	being dominant in different areas on Terra.  Sailing vessels<BR>
	are not widely used to transport goods.  Nor are derigables.<BR>
<BR>
>In some cases, even very brilliant people can't think far enough<BR>
>"outside the box" to see that there may be a different way of doing<BR>
>something. The rise in popularity of "alternative medicines" in the<BR>
>West is a good example. Acupuncture, which just came up on the list<BR>
>in another discussion, is quite different from other methods of<BR>
>dealing with certain medical problems.<BR>
<BR>
	Hmmmm... let's not go there.<BR>
<BR>
>Similarly, the difference between the therapy dominated field of<BR>
>psychology and the empirical approach of psychiatry are really<BR>
>very different. I could go on and on, but I think that I've made<BR>
>my point. ;)<BR>
<BR>
	Me too.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 00:46:01 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
<BR>
>Heh-heh.  Yep, named "Vampire Fleets". :-p<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
barely<BR>
that suppliment contained 1 ship with its floor plans<BR>
unless of course u are talking about a suppliment in which the ship can be a pc<BR>
<BR>
but the best suppliment for ship's I'd have to say is "Brilliant Lances"<BR>
many low end ships from tl 12-15<BR>
In my talons I shape clay.....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:05:51 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
<BR>
I give, what was the big deal about TNE that nobody liked it?  Certainly<BR>
Brilliant Lances and Battle Rider are derived works and cool to read if not<BR>
necessarily play.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Qstor@aol.com <Qstor@aol.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:31 AM<BR>
Subject: Hello and TNE question<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Hi all, I'm back after a few months absence. I was previosuly subscribed<BR>
under mmckeown@hotmail. I just voted on Mark Millers site for favorite<BR>
traveller system..I found I was in the distinct MINORITY :)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>I have a TNE question...was there a "ship" book for the system? Like supp.<BR>
7 or 9 for CT?<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks..happy holidays to all!<BR>
>Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:06:55 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > p.17 "Starsailing: Solar Sails and Interstellar Travel" by Louis Freidman<BR>
> <BR>
> Try telling that to the magsail folks! :-)<BR>
<BR>
Magsails are non-physical, and several orders of magnitude larger than solar sails.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:07:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Agreed, but the most common *uses* of the skill I've seen or heard<BR>
> of deals with those who are, in some way, criminal. Whether they are<BR>
> criminal because they are the bad guys, or because they've been<BR>
> criminalized by the rest of society is another matter. Your quote<BR>
> highlights the utility of the skill in knowing how to obtain contraband<BR>
> goods or make shady deals as well.<BR>
<BR>
Well, traditionally the background of Traveller is one in which the most<BR>
common subcultures will generally be things like organized crime<BR>
organizations and revolutionary groups, so it makes sense that these would<BR>
be the most common uses, especially to a game that has a strong focus on<BR>
merchant and mercenary style campaigns.<BR>
<BR>
> (OT: I recall in TSR's "Gangbusters" prohibition-era rpg, there was a<BR>
> chance (1 in 100? 1 in 36?) that any NPC would be totally honest,<BR>
> and would not lie, accept a bribe or give in to criminal intimidation<BR>
under<BR>
> any circumstances.<BR>
<BR>
That's interesting! I might snag it for my own use ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:07:31 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
In message <v04210102b466e649c758@[195.102.200.80]>, SD Mooney<BR>
<dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> writes<BR>
>Originally, the plan was to use coal from local sources, but <BR>
>it was realised that the natural radiation levels of the coal would <BR>
>set off all the site external alarms if any dust blew around.<BR>
<BR>
Not dust, but combustion gases.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:10:11 +0000<BR>
From: "Dr. Nik" <sharik@barrayar.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
<BR>
... You wake up the day after your 34th birthday and think 'Oh my God!<BR>
Next year I start making ageing rolls!'<BR>
<BR>
Nik<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
     Nik Whitehead C885587-B S zh++ as+ da+ kk-- A 224<BR>
sharik@barrayar.demon.co.uk    http://www.barrayar.demon.co.uk<BR>
           Having the moral high ground is good.<BR>
   Having the moral high ground and a meson gun is better.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:15:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
- --- Jason Kemp <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
> on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the<BR>
> one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
> planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
> <BR>
> First, the obvious answer that most people come up with is "Everybody<BR>
> falls down."  Yes, and so do buildings, vegetation, certain terrain <BR>
> types, etc.  Suddenly the world stops, but inertia keeps you going at<BR>
> an incredible rate.  (My best friend quoted something around 900 <BR>
> miles per second, but I don't have the figures to back it up.  <BR>
> That's one hell of a skinned knee.)<BR>
<BR>
My rough calculations indicate a more "sedate" rate. On the equator,<BR>
the circumference of the Earth is 24854.848 miles, give or take. The <BR>
Earth rotates once in about 23.933333333 hours. So I figure the <BR>
speed at close to 1038.503398 miles an hour. <BR>
<BR>
Unless I am totally offbase. <g><BR>
<BR>
And as you move away from the equator, the speed will drop. At the <BR>
poles, the effect would be almost negligible. <BR>
<BR>
> Creatures and/or technological devices in flight would be tossed, <BR>
> tumbling, through the air in the direction of the previous rotation <BR>
> of the planet as the atmosphere suddenly scoured the planet's <BR>
> surface, continuing to move that direction due to inertia as well.  <BR>
> Assuming that aerodynamic flight could not be reestablished once the <BR>
> device starts flipping nose over tail, wing over wing, in a chaotic <BR>
> tumble, most of these devices would probably crash.  I'm not sure how<BR>
> well gravitic devices could recover from the disorientation of being <BR>
> slammed by an atmosphere that was suddenly moving at the planet's <BR>
> former rotation speed while the planet has stopped.<BR>
<BR>
I am not so certain that craft in the air would be affected so badly.<BR>
The air around the craft would still be going the same rough speed <BR>
in relation to the craft. The ground stopped, not the air or the craft.<BR>
<BR>
The ground would whiz by though and flying objects would be a hazard.<BR>
That and mountains. <g> The effects would be more pronounced near <BR>
the ground.<BR>
 <BR>
>  One of the effects of this would be the pushing of the planet <BR>
> outside it's former plane of orbit about its primary/star.  For <BR>
> Earth, that means that the world would start moving in a northerly <BR>
> direction, out of the plane it used to orbit in.  Someone on the <BR>
> south pole at the time the world's rotation was stopped would be <BR>
> launched into the air, as the world started moving north out of the <BR>
> plane of revolution at a high rate of speed, relatively.  Someone of <BR>
> the north pole would be slammed to the ground at a relatively high <BR>
> rate of speed, for much the same reason.  (This is according to my <BR>
> friend.  I personally have doubts on this point, at least as far <BR>
> as the person standing on either pole being so dramatically <BR>
> affected by the shift in direction of planet movement.)<BR>
<BR>
North? If it moves out of its orbit at all, which I will have to <BR>
think about, I would expect that would change perpendicular to the <BR>
actual plane of that orbit, ie the equator. Thus, no matter what <BR>
direction, in or out, it would depend on where things were in the <BR>
day/night rotation. I do not have any facts on if the rotation of <BR>
the earth adds or subtracts from it's orbital period but I would <BR>
feel safe in saying that it does not add/subtract enough to change <BR>
the orbit very much at all. Everybody? Am I off base on this?<BR>
 <BR>
> My apologies if you do not find this an interesting diversion or<BR>
> thought exercise, at least momentarily.  I now return you to your <BR>
> regularly scheduled thread of choice, already in progress.<BR>
<BR>
I like the mental challenge that this one provoked. Thanks.<BR>
 <BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:16:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/3 Solar Sails<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, there's another problem (potential). You need to sanity check<BR>
> the figures for the sail mass.<BR>
<BR>
Shrug...400 lb/square mile, or .07 grams/square meter, or 7e-6 grams/square centimeter.  Assuming water density, 7 angstroms thick.<BR>
<BR>
Considering such other GTL-9 abominations as monowire and construction foam (construction foam is fast-hardening foam that's firm enough to walk on.  It has a density, if inflated, of about .0005) it fits well enough with the GURPS technology.  Of course, both of these technologies might be unavailable in GT.<BR>
<BR>
> And mass has to be above (way above!) 2.28 tons per space (250 mi^2).<BR>
<BR>
It is.  22x greater.<BR>
> <BR>
> >>A 1-space (490T) TL-8 sail is 15 square miles with a thrust of 0.038T (it<BR>
> >>has marginally lower thrust); maximum area is 3,600 square miles (240<BR>
> >>modules)<BR>
> <BR>
> And it must mass above .137 tons per space (15 mi^2).<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:13:20 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Some ways I try to make ships of different races (or even regions)<BR>
vary from each other: customs and regulations. Here are some examples<BR>
of ways I've used to make ships different, from different regions,<BR>
species or organizations:<BR>
<BR>
All vessels above 200dtns (or some other arbitrary limit) must have<BR>
sufficient lifeboats to carry all passengers and crew, or cannot be<BR>
licensed to carry passengers in Imperial(or other) space.<BR>
<BR>
All jump-capable ships, even small ones, must be unstreamlined<BR>
to prevent their landing on planets[1], or because the particular variant<BR>
of jump drive technology used behaves badly when exposed to <BR>
planetary landings[2]. (I have a 200dtn, jump-1 trading ship design that<BR>
carries a 95dtn shuttlecraft for when I was experimenting with this idea.)<BR>
<BR>
Misjumps are to be feared. Only the most desperate crewman will serve<BR>
on a ship unless it has sufficient low berths/emergency low berths<BR>
available at all times to allow everyone to go into hibernation in the rare<BR>
case of a misjump to interstellar space or a fuelless system.<BR>
<BR>
Passengers with criminal intent are a very serious threat to the safety<BR>
of a starship. Passenger areas are on seperate decks, and are widely<BR>
seperated from areas containing any important ship functions. There are<BR>
no vital areas a crewman needs to access during flight that require a <BR>
crewman to enter the passenger areas, unless the crewman is specifically <BR>
seeing to passenger needs. The passenger area probably also has <BR>
it's own exterior access (airlock or small craft dock), so the passengers<BR>
can board and disembark from the ship without ever entering most of it.<BR>
<BR>
No one boards a starship unless they are in the same service or company<BR>
as that operating the starship, or are there as allies of the starship<BR>
operators (such as contract employees or hired specialists). There is<BR>
virtually no distinction between passenger areas and crew areas, and<BR>
"passengers" are usually given appropriate shipboard duties during<BR>
the voyage.<BR>
<BR>
While most starports have sufficient support craft, no serious merchant<BR>
vessel will place it's cargo handling ability entirely in the hands of each<BR>
planet's shuttle service. Nearly all merchant vessels will have their own<BR>
small craft, with at least some ability to transfer passengers and cargo<BR>
from orbit to planet. Your High Passengers want to disembark *now*, not <BR>
when the local shuttle pilot strike is over. Also, if enough merchant<BR>
vessels have some small craft capability, it will help control the power of <BR>
each planet's shuttle pilot groups to increase rates.<BR>
<BR>
Some manufacturing, engineering or facilities limitation places a<BR>
maximum practical size on ships that can be landed - perhaps 1000dtns<BR>
or so. Even when the limitation is overcome, it may be some time<BR>
before shipbuilding customs or common landing facilities make larger,<BR>
landable ships a useful design philosophy.<BR>
<BR>
Just some ideas...variations in design philosophy, rather than <BR>
strictly the technology involved.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[1] Say the polity in question is surrounded by worlds that lack jump<BR>
drives, and wants to ensure that a jump drive will never be landed<BR>
on a planet and seized.<BR>
[2] In Alan Dean Foster's Flinx(sp?) series, no ship with a stardrive<BR>
could land on a planet without wrecking the drive and a good chunk of<BR>
the planet. Everyone knew this to be true. Then the hero met some<BR>
aliens who didn't know it couldn't be done, and their mathematical<BR>
prodigies made it work, but only made one for Flinx...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:19:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: power generation technologies<BR>
<BR>
Steven Hudson writes:<BR>
>   While we're on the subject (or at least close), would anyone care<BR>
> to explain why SF games almost always assume that anti-matter is a<BR>
> power supply system that doesn't need an ultimate source of fuel?<BR>
<BR>
Because antimatter fuel plants are 'background' information, not something you generally put on board your ship?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:39:34 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning<BR>
> > on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the<BR>
> > one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a<BR>
> > planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
This made me think of another RPG that came out about ten years ago, TORG.<BR>
In the books that came out at the same time (I don't have the books any more<BR>
and the names escape me but it was a three book trilogy) one of the bad guys<BR>
was slowly (over about a months time) slowing down the earth's spin. The<BR>
effect was a slow but steady increase/decrease of temps, daylight/night<BR>
fall, and extreme weather. End result was a small ribbon in the twilight<BR>
zone that was not harm full to life. If anyone can remember the detials (the<BR>
books names, ect..), please jump in.<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
"It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion,<BR>
By the beans of Java, my thoughts acquire speed,<BR>
The hands acquire the shakes, the shakes become a warning,<BR>
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:02:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:13 PM<BR>
Subject: re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Some ways I try to make ships of different races (or even regions)<BR>
> vary from each other: customs and regulations. Here are some examples<BR>
> of ways I've used to make ships different, from different regions,<BR>
> species or organizations:<BR>
<BR>
Throwing some of my own ideas into the mix:<BR>
<BR>
A serious human tragedy due to poor safety features causes the local<BR>
interstellar polity to crack down on safety requirements for passenger<BR>
carrying ships. This could be a real problem for ship owning characters who<BR>
might have to foot the bill to add things like lifeboats, or to take out<BR>
things, like flammable panels in the passenger and crew compartments, or<BR>
install an extensive, and expensive, safety system of another sort.<BR>
<BR>
A secondary form of interstellar travel can be added which is cheaper or<BR>
more fuel efficient than standard Jump Drives, but which is slower than even<BR>
Jump-1. Such a drive would not seriously impact the game world, but could be<BR>
used for local flavor as certain races might use such a design for bulk, low<BR>
priority shipping.<BR>
<BR>
Jump Drives, in and of themselves, can be modified slightly. Add a few hours<BR>
to transit time to simulate cheap drives, knock a few off to simulate more<BR>
expensive, optimized drives. Similarly, fuel consumption can be varied, or<BR>
alternate methods of power generation for Jump Drives can be employed, like<BR>
the Annic Nova. A more detailed system for misjump calculation can be<BR>
employed, and the drives of different races, or companies, or polities might<BR>
have slightly different chances to misjump.<BR>
<BR>
There might be some degree of difficulty in applying parts for a more<BR>
expensive or exotic version of Jump Drive. Canonically, it is said that the<BR>
Droyne make excellent hand crafter Jump Drives, while the first try of the<BR>
Hivers was inferior to "standard" drives. The same core technology may be<BR>
there with regard to jump drives, but the actual application could well be<BR>
different.<BR>
<BR>
Apply drawbacks to technologies like reactionless thrusters and<BR>
contra-gravity. This might explain why certain races or cultures might<BR>
prefer another form of technology. There were some good ideas along these<BR>
lines in the original Fire, Fusion & Steel. One of the ones that I liked<BR>
quite a bit was "mass displacement" as a drawback / advantage for<BR>
contra-gravity.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1428<BR>
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